"Out of Africa comes a story of bravery and boldness in Christ that we in America need to hear. There was an young African pastor who was caught in the struggle between an Islamic rebel force and the existing government of his nation. When his village was overwhelmed by rebels, they demanded that he renounce his faith. He refused. The night before they took his life, he wrote the following lines on a scrap of paper:"
"I am part of the "Fellowship of the Unashamed." I have Holy Spirit power. The die has been cast. I've stepped over the line. The decision has been made. I am a disciple of His. I won't look back, let up, slow down, back away, or be still. My past is redeemed, my present makes sense, and my future is secure. I am finished and done with low living, sight walking, small planning, smooth knees, colorless dreams, tame visions, mundane talking, chintzy giving, and dwarfed goals!
I no longer need preeminence, prosperity, position, promotions, plaudits, or popularity. I don't have to be right, first, tops, recognized, praised, regarded, or rewarded. I now live by presence, lean by faith, love by patience, lift by prayer, and labor by power.
My face is set, my gait is fast, my goal is heaven, my road is narrow, my way is rough, my companions few, my Guide reliable, my mission clear. I cannot be bought , compromised, detoured, lured away, turned back, diluted, or delayed. I will not flinch in the face of sacrifice, hesitate in the presence of adversity, negotiate at the table of the enemy, ponder at the pool of popularity, or meander in the maze of mediocrity.
I won't give up, shut up, let up, or burn up till I've preached up, prayed up, paid up, stored up, and stayed up for the cause of Christ.
I am a disciple of Jesus. I must go till He comes, give till I drop, preach till all know, and work till He stops. And when He comes to get His own, He'll have no problems recognizing me. My colors will be clear."Last changelog:
I think "everyone" needs to grow up. The arguments back and forth seem to be "the battle of who is more enlightened". What a Joke. Believe what you want. Just because you believe it, doesn't make it correct.
how can this wallpaper offend those with Islamic background? I dont see anything that is against them. Everybody should be free to upload as long as it is not a direct attack to anyone.
"how can this wallpaper offend those with Islamic background?"
Simple: the text seems to reinforce the "bad guy" stereotype of Islam that is sadly on the increase.
Bear in mind that Tim was setting the context of the poem. Without the context it doesn't have the same meaning.
True, the comments, not the wallpaper, probably do reinforce the stereotype of Muslums as "bad guys." However, the general population will always accept stereotypes anyway, because they never undertake that Socratean exercise of examining their own lives. For the rest of us, all it would take is a cursory reading of the Koran to know that, for the most part, it shares the same moral dicates of the Bible (mercy, repaying evil with good, etc). People all over the world share a basic moral code. For example, in Japan stealing is looked down upon. This is not because the Japanese honor the Ten Commandments, but because they honor the unwritten principles that preceeded the "Ten Commandments." Leading Christian theologians, like the Apostle Paul (c.f. Rom 2:14-15) and C.S. Lewis have always recognized this.
I am supplementing, not contradicting you.
Yup. You are referring to Paul's statement that "the law is written" by God on the heart (vs. 15). Thanks for recognizing that.
Furthermore, whether or not the text perpetuates a stereotype, that doesn't render it invalid. I realize that there maybe most (I don't know all of them!) followers of Islam are perfectly nice people. As I have mentioned before I listen very frequently to Ravi Zacharias (who you may have heard of even if you are not a Christian) who has testified to this repeatedly...and I believe him.
However, there are also those who DO kill those who refuse to convert or have chosen to convert from Islam to Christianity. I have an Iranian Jewish friend who fled Iran because of such as this. He didn't convert, rather he was born as an Iranian Jew.
The Rutherford institute reports (and I can give you the link) that Coptic believers...even young children...are being crucified even today...simply because of what they believe.
Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that the idea is that one should not say something that might perpetuate a stereotype, even if that statement might be true.
If that is the case, then I reject it.
Thanks for the insight. I appreciate it!
Tim
Your logic is faulty. A stereotype is something applied generally to an entire group of people. Unless you're willing to say that "muslims are (mostly) bad people" then the stereotype is not true. By your own admission, you say that your post may be propogating this stereotype. Since this stereotype is not true, you are propogating a lie.
There are bad people in every religion. Christianity has more than its share of evils done in its name. There is no point in attributing these evils to good people, which is what your poem does.
I believe that most adherants to Islam are decent people. That doesn't mean that they aren't stereotyped by others. I think alot of Americans do, in fact, have a stereotypical view of Islam.
You know, anything a person says or does can feed a stereotype that others hold regardless of whether or not the person in question holds the stereotype.
You can't read many of the threads related to my paper without noticing stereotypes about Christianity...which imply that we go around forcing conversions at the point of a gun. And you know, some people might say I'm feeding it because I'm "pushing (in some mystical way) my beliefs" on others.
I may do things that feed a given stereotype held by others. But I don't believe that, on it's face, makes what I (or anyone else) do or say *wrong* in and of itself. If I did, I'd be telling others to "shut up", etc. Besides, I firmly believe that a given individual is responsible for holding stereotypes.
Because so many have choosed to attack you constantly, I wanted to share this with you and everybody else in the same situation:
"Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing."
1 Peter 3:9
-Jukka
Hi Tim,
This is exactly why I urge you to post your wallpapers somewhere more appropriate like a Christian site where you will find your target audience. Not the wallpaper it self but the accompanying text can (and probably will) be offending to other visitors, especially those with an Islamic background. We don’t need a clash of religions on this site.
"There will be a final judgement!
Eveyone will participate, wheather they believe or not!"
Yeah see, our religious opinions are FACT, simply because we accept them as FACT. You are supposed to pretend along with us that they are FACT. Anyone who does not participate with us in the pretense that our religious opinions are FACTS, are simply being intolerant. Further, you should ignore Miss Manners completely, when she says to not offer your opinions, of any kind, unless asked.
And yes, there will be final judgement. You either worship the Ancient Bronze Age God of the Hebrew goat herders, or you end up in hell. Just like when the mafia says, you either pay us protection money or we break your mother's legs. God is so powerful these are the methods He has to resort to.
Actally, there is no neat separation between facts and opinions. Facts are just opinions in which people place more confidence. Descartes showed that the only thing one can really be sure of is his own existance. So what is 'fact' to you might be 'opinion' to someone else, and vice versa. People speak of opinions all the time as if they are facts (i.e., debates). So it makes no difference whether someone portrays something as a fact or an opinion.
True, that is why DNA tests can not be used as evidence in criminal cases. The test results are only opinions. Now I see why there is no such thing as facts. Thanks for your help. Before your post, I had no idea that facts did not exist.
Both of you are misunderstanding what I said. Maybe you've never had an introductory course in philosophy. All I was saying is that it is impossible to be 100% sure of anything.
EXAMPLE
Argument: I have seen a site named www.kde-look.org. Therefore, the site must exist.
Refutation: It is possible that you are living inside the Matrix, and so nothing you actually see is real (this is what Descartes basically said).
Notice that I am talking about what is possible, not what is probable. With the DNA test, it is possible that someone planted false DNA at the crime scene. But this is improbable. That is why guilty verdicts in the U.S. are based on "probable cause".
I was trying to defend the real Tim, but he obviously didn't read my post carefully and took it to be "postmodern nonsense."
It's not true because we believe it (that's New Age/Postmodern nonsense), we believe it because it is true.
Contrary to the example of nonsense faith, Christianity is open to verification through biblical and non-biblical historical accounts as well as archaeology.If you want to disprove the Bible and the Christian faith, that's where to go...but eventually you will have to deal with the secular historical accounts of the fact that Christ lived, died and yet three days later was seen as a risen Lord.
Noone has been able to do that in 2000 years. make a name for yourself; be the first.
Thanks,
Tim
1. You can not prove a negative.
2. There are no non-bibical historical accounts, nor archeology, that proves the myth you believe is true. Go to the library. What section is the Bible found in? The history section? I think not, as the history contained in the Bible is wholly & completely inaccurate. So it is placed in the religion section, along with the other myths, where it belongs. Were the history contained in the Bible factual, you would find it in the history section.
3. You say you believe it because it is true. Do you also take slaves from surrounding nations, as god tells you to in your Bible? Will you sell your daughters into slavery, as your god tells you to in your Bible? Do you stone adulterers, as god tells you to in your Bible? Must women not speak in your church, as Paul said, in your Bible? That's right. I didn't think so. Now please find some other forum to spread your propoganda.
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I think "everyone" needs to grow up. The arguments back and forth seem to be "the battle of who is more enlightened". What a Joke. Believe what you want. Just because you believe it, doesn't make it correct.
*mental note* Next time something like this starts, delete the entry and reenter it to clear the thread... *end mental note*
Just "delete the entry" will do nicely.
how can this wallpaper offend those with Islamic background? I dont see anything that is against them. Everybody should be free to upload as long as it is not a direct attack to anyone.
"how can this wallpaper offend those with Islamic background?" Simple: the text seems to reinforce the "bad guy" stereotype of Islam that is sadly on the increase.
Bear in mind that Tim was setting the context of the poem. Without the context it doesn't have the same meaning. True, the comments, not the wallpaper, probably do reinforce the stereotype of Muslums as "bad guys." However, the general population will always accept stereotypes anyway, because they never undertake that Socratean exercise of examining their own lives. For the rest of us, all it would take is a cursory reading of the Koran to know that, for the most part, it shares the same moral dicates of the Bible (mercy, repaying evil with good, etc). People all over the world share a basic moral code. For example, in Japan stealing is looked down upon. This is not because the Japanese honor the Ten Commandments, but because they honor the unwritten principles that preceeded the "Ten Commandments." Leading Christian theologians, like the Apostle Paul (c.f. Rom 2:14-15) and C.S. Lewis have always recognized this. I am supplementing, not contradicting you.
Yup. You are referring to Paul's statement that "the law is written" by God on the heart (vs. 15). Thanks for recognizing that. Furthermore, whether or not the text perpetuates a stereotype, that doesn't render it invalid. I realize that there maybe most (I don't know all of them!) followers of Islam are perfectly nice people. As I have mentioned before I listen very frequently to Ravi Zacharias (who you may have heard of even if you are not a Christian) who has testified to this repeatedly...and I believe him. However, there are also those who DO kill those who refuse to convert or have chosen to convert from Islam to Christianity. I have an Iranian Jewish friend who fled Iran because of such as this. He didn't convert, rather he was born as an Iranian Jew. The Rutherford institute reports (and I can give you the link) that Coptic believers...even young children...are being crucified even today...simply because of what they believe. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that the idea is that one should not say something that might perpetuate a stereotype, even if that statement might be true. If that is the case, then I reject it. Thanks for the insight. I appreciate it! Tim
Your logic is faulty. A stereotype is something applied generally to an entire group of people. Unless you're willing to say that "muslims are (mostly) bad people" then the stereotype is not true. By your own admission, you say that your post may be propogating this stereotype. Since this stereotype is not true, you are propogating a lie. There are bad people in every religion. Christianity has more than its share of evils done in its name. There is no point in attributing these evils to good people, which is what your poem does.
I believe that most adherants to Islam are decent people. That doesn't mean that they aren't stereotyped by others. I think alot of Americans do, in fact, have a stereotypical view of Islam.
You know, anything a person says or does can feed a stereotype that others hold regardless of whether or not the person in question holds the stereotype. You can't read many of the threads related to my paper without noticing stereotypes about Christianity...which imply that we go around forcing conversions at the point of a gun. And you know, some people might say I'm feeding it because I'm "pushing (in some mystical way) my beliefs" on others. I may do things that feed a given stereotype held by others. But I don't believe that, on it's face, makes what I (or anyone else) do or say *wrong* in and of itself. If I did, I'd be telling others to "shut up", etc. Besides, I firmly believe that a given individual is responsible for holding stereotypes.
Because so many have choosed to attack you constantly, I wanted to share this with you and everybody else in the same situation: "Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing." 1 Peter 3:9 -Jukka
Hi Jukka and thanks! Tim
Hi Tim, This is exactly why I urge you to post your wallpapers somewhere more appropriate like a Christian site where you will find your target audience. Not the wallpaper it self but the accompanying text can (and probably will) be offending to other visitors, especially those with an Islamic background. We don’t need a clash of religions on this site.
i really dont like the wallpaper...but i like the message. now its my wallpaper
That's ok, the message is the most important part anyway...:) Thanks! Tim
"There will be a final judgement! Eveyone will participate, wheather they believe or not!" Yeah see, our religious opinions are FACT, simply because we accept them as FACT. You are supposed to pretend along with us that they are FACT. Anyone who does not participate with us in the pretense that our religious opinions are FACTS, are simply being intolerant. Further, you should ignore Miss Manners completely, when she says to not offer your opinions, of any kind, unless asked. And yes, there will be final judgement. You either worship the Ancient Bronze Age God of the Hebrew goat herders, or you end up in hell. Just like when the mafia says, you either pay us protection money or we break your mother's legs. God is so powerful these are the methods He has to resort to.
Actally, there is no neat separation between facts and opinions. Facts are just opinions in which people place more confidence. Descartes showed that the only thing one can really be sure of is his own existance. So what is 'fact' to you might be 'opinion' to someone else, and vice versa. People speak of opinions all the time as if they are facts (i.e., debates). So it makes no difference whether someone portrays something as a fact or an opinion.
True, that is why DNA tests can not be used as evidence in criminal cases. The test results are only opinions. Now I see why there is no such thing as facts. Thanks for your help. Before your post, I had no idea that facts did not exist.
*no such thing as facts* Are you stating that as a *fact*?
Both of you are misunderstanding what I said. Maybe you've never had an introductory course in philosophy. All I was saying is that it is impossible to be 100% sure of anything. EXAMPLE Argument: I have seen a site named www.kde-look.org. Therefore, the site must exist. Refutation: It is possible that you are living inside the Matrix, and so nothing you actually see is real (this is what Descartes basically said). Notice that I am talking about what is possible, not what is probable. With the DNA test, it is possible that someone planted false DNA at the crime scene. But this is improbable. That is why guilty verdicts in the U.S. are based on "probable cause". I was trying to defend the real Tim, but he obviously didn't read my post carefully and took it to be "postmodern nonsense."
No linuster, I was replying to imPLEZdrown527 .
OK, but realize that when he said "there are no facts" he was satirizing me.
Ok, DUH! Sometimes it's hard to tell.
It's not true because we believe it (that's New Age/Postmodern nonsense), we believe it because it is true. Contrary to the example of nonsense faith, Christianity is open to verification through biblical and non-biblical historical accounts as well as archaeology.If you want to disprove the Bible and the Christian faith, that's where to go...but eventually you will have to deal with the secular historical accounts of the fact that Christ lived, died and yet three days later was seen as a risen Lord. Noone has been able to do that in 2000 years. make a name for yourself; be the first. Thanks, Tim
1. You can not prove a negative. 2. There are no non-bibical historical accounts, nor archeology, that proves the myth you believe is true. Go to the library. What section is the Bible found in? The history section? I think not, as the history contained in the Bible is wholly & completely inaccurate. So it is placed in the religion section, along with the other myths, where it belongs. Were the history contained in the Bible factual, you would find it in the history section. 3. You say you believe it because it is true. Do you also take slaves from surrounding nations, as god tells you to in your Bible? Will you sell your daughters into slavery, as your god tells you to in your Bible? Do you stone adulterers, as god tells you to in your Bible? Must women not speak in your church, as Paul said, in your Bible? That's right. I didn't think so. Now please find some other forum to spread your propoganda.