This is why the world will never get along and always be at war. Too many people are so easily offended by other peoples beliefs and opinions. Have they ever stopped to think that their own beliefs and opinions may be offensive to others? It's these radical, self-centered, egotistical and opinionated mindsets that keep this world in constant struggle. Why is everyone so easily offended? Heteros are offended by gays... Jews, Muslims and Christians are offended by eachother as are blacks, whites and hispanics... Linux users are offended by Windows users... Why doesn't everybody just mind their own business and let everyone else exist? If people want to share their thoughts and opinions, that's a human right. To force someone to stop sharing or to demand the same beliefs from others is criminal. I'm just a heterosexual white male with my own beliefs of God not fitting to any organized religion who believes in Capitalistic freedom and the pursuit of a happy, fulfilling life, emotionally, spiritually and financially. I do not expect that every person will feel the same, but I belive they have that right. I don't force my views on them, and I don't expect them to force their views on me. Most people can make their own choices about what they want to believe. So if Tim wants to post his artwork expressing his beliefs, so be it. I would not expect Tim to say that "you must be a Christian." If you don't like it, then say so. I would not expect you to say "don't be a Christian, it's offensive." Let's put an end to this radical thinking and let people be who they are. I'm getting tired of seeing all this childish back-and-forth bickering in these posts.
Why do so many people think that Tim's artwork is so bad? I think it's wonderful! Have you ever tried to do free-hand in the Gimp? It's really tough. And even if you really do think it looks bad, don't bash him. Give him some advice, if you want to, but don't put him down.
P.S. As for those who say he's not improving...ha! He's ten times better then he was a couple of months ago.
Better than a few months ago? No big deal! Better than the worst can still be extremely bad. And IMHO tim's religious "artwork" is worse than extremely bad. Too bad one only has one vote. ;)
Servus
flammenbringer
I don't often post things like this but WHAT is the big deal??? Are KDE lovers supposed to love Satan or something????? Or are they supposed to express only the love of TUX???? Penguins only allowed??? I use KDE AND I love lighthouses! The lighthouse holds a spiritual meaning to some and other meanings to other individuals. I have personally spent much time sitting in front of the Point Loma lighthouse in San Diego waiting for my husband to sail back in from the war in the last couple of years.
Get off Tim's back! He stated his work is for fellow believers. If you don't believe, he's not trying to convert you.
If you don't like his work, then spend less time complaining about it and more time being creative yourselves!
WHAT is the big deal??? Are KDE lovers supposed to love Satan or something????? Or are they supposed to express only the love of TUX???? Penguins only allowed?
I love lighthouses! They hold a spiritual meaning to some and other meanings to other individuals. I have personally spent much time sitting in front of the Point Loma lighthouse in San Diego waiting for my husband to sail back in from the war in the last couple of years.
Get off Tim's back! He stated his work is for fellow believers. If you don't believe, he's not trying to convert you.
If you don't like his work, then spend less time complaining about it and more time being creative yourselves!
With all respect mbiker35, asking, requesting or suggesting for someone to move on somewhere else to post is just candy coating censorship. For example, if I choose to make my black students/coworkers uncomfortable or unwelcomed to the point that they go somewhere more "comfortable", I have indeed censored or removed them nonetheless. While this may be a mild form of censorship or coercion, the end result is the same. That is the removal of views, content,opinions or people that one does not agree with. This is very dangerous and in most countries against the law in the public arena.
I suggest that we learn from history how this has lead to the persecution of whole groups i.e. blacks,Jews, Islamics and now I suggest, Christians.
Your point that there may be a "better" place to post his artwork suggests that this would be better for you, not necessarily for Tim. The artist does not require your permission or mine before creating or posting work. The artist has a duty to remain true to his or herself. Sometimes art is well received and sometimes it is not. That is what makes art so provocative and stimulating. It challenges us to reexamine our own values and ideals. It either causes one to change their postion or solidify their previously held beliefs, the result is personal growth!
Those that vote up Tim's work is indeed in the minority. However, what mbiker35 and those that agree with him fail to understand is minority voices, views and artistist expression should be protected and have an equal right to those who would be in the majority. To put it simply, if only art that the majority likes are permitted to post then we do not have "free speech" or a free forum. This can be a dangerous situation for your view point as well since you may one day be in the minority.
There is an expression used in the video cutting/editing room, "if it doesn't hurt, then your not editing". Well folks, "if it doesn't hurt, then its not free speech". Many in Europe may have difficulty in grasping the "American" concept of freedom of speech. Even us Americans debate what is and what is not considered speech. Tim's work is clearly appreciated, used and wanted by many, albeit a minority of KDE users.
I too feel your pain. I too hurt when I see, in my opinion, an ignorant socialist post content that I disagree with. Just remember, that it is "free speech" that will one day protect your own content.
I think you have misunderstood what I am saying. If I didn't believe in the voice of the minority, I wouldn't be a Linux user or an avid Slashdot reader :-p. Only through creativity and expression (sometimes of the minority) do new and awsome things come about. I do not support censorship. Notice two things about what I said:
1. I did NOT advocate CENSORSHIP of Tim's work. I did NOT call for KDE-Look admin to ban him or the like.
2. I put out a couple ideas for BETTER ways for Tim to express his ideas. My argument was NOT that Tim's ideas are bad and should therefore be censored. I simply offered evidence strongly suggesting that KDE-Look is not the best place for him to express his views.
Tim has every right to express his views, but given the evidence in my previous post, it should be obvious that this site is not the place to do it.
Tim, I'm not trying to flame you here, so please read through this comment. I'd like to point out a few things that you seem to have ignored or not noticed. First off, your wallpapers offend people! Secondly, not ONE of your wallpapers has ever received a rating of higher than 49%. That means that the majority of people DO NOT enjoy your artwork. In fact, most of your wallpapers seem to float around 29 to mid 30s percent. These ratings are terrible Tim, and they don't seem to be getting much better. KDE-Look as a community has consistently voted you down, and posted comments asking you to discontinue your postings. Many valid points have been brought up to support this conviction, including: your wallpapers are not eyecandy, the content is offensive, you post unceasingly (near daily), your ratings are VERY low and people have asked you to stop. In addition, you have so annoyed people that there have been a couple "wallpapers" created to MAKE FUN of you. The community is trying to tell you something Tim, especially considering both of the wallpapers were RATED HIGHER THAN ANY OF YOURS. The KDE-Look community is trying to ask you to stop, so please, reconsider what you are doing.
There are alternatives to KDE-Look. I'm sure that there are many online christian communities that would welcome your work. If there aren't, it may be a fun project to create an eyecandy for christians site. I am not trying to flame; but myself, and many members of this community have been, and are asking you now, to find another place for your work. I respect that you want to make wallpapers to honor what you believe, but KDE-Look is simply not the place for it.
Be careful. Last time I said this, someone called me - quote - "one of the most jackass I've come across". Besides, you don't expect him to listen, do you? I mean, evolution of the coke can? *hint, hint*
Regarding your first point, I have seen other postings that have been rather offending, and some with maliscious intent. Tell me if you see the amount of responses to those postings as opposed to Tim's. Personally, they do not offend me. And the ones that do I might look, but that's it. I move on. I find it amusing that those that disagree are still willing to come and respond. Tim doesn't do it to spite anyone. He does it because he sees that there are people in the KDE-Look community that enjoy his art. I myself have been critical of the quality of his work at times, but I believe that everyone should have the right to post what they want, even if the "supposed majority" says otherwise. To date, I have not seen the admins say anything about it, so if it's ok with them, it's ok.
The reason his artwork goes down to 20-30 percent is because there are some that do it with bad intentions. They don't rate him on the art quality itself. They rate it down because of his beliefs, and because he chooses to share that with others. He's not saying, "BELIEVE THIS OR DIE!!!" He's just sharing some of his artwork with a biblical passage. If those that have a problem don't like it, move on. But don't rate it down because of what it says...rate it because the art is good/bad. That's why this place is "eye candy for your kde-desktop." And that "eye candy" is subjective.
As for the parodies of his wallpapers and other such responses, that just speaks volumes of the maturity level of some members of this community. All those people are doing is making themselves look foolish. This would be akin to Linux users attacking SCO technologically or even physically because of what SCO is doing. It only hurts the situation, and makes Linux and the Linux community look bad. Same goes for the KDE-Look community. Show yourselves as people who can engage in discussions in a mature level, not by responding in such childish ways like the spiteful wallpapers.
As for alternatives that would supposedly be "more suited" to Tim's artwork, I don't buy that one bit. If that were the case, then 95% of the submissions should be removed, because most of them don't have ANYTHING to do with KDE. Some are artworks of nature...should they only go to sites that cater to this??? I don't think so. In the same manner, I think Tim has all the right to post his artwork. Besides, if you read the New Testament, Christians are called to share the good news of Jesus Christ. What good does it do to share to those that already know??? Talk about preaching to the choir!! We are called to share to those that don't know, and the choice is up to each person. NOWHERE in the Bible does it say "FORCE them to believe." It is a personal choice...that is why we have freewill. If you choose to disagree, that's fine! But base your ratings on the quality of his artwork, for that is why it's posted. And if the message happens to touch someone's heart, then great. But don't attack him for his beliefs. To date Tim hasn't attacked anyone for not believing...he's only defended himself from those that have attacked him.
As I mentioned in another posting, one person does not speak for the entire community, nor does the majority speak for the entire community. Many others have shown their thanks to Tim for posting his art, and it is getting better. Just because the majority of the world runs Windows doesn't mean that I'm going to stop using Linux or Mac OS or anything else. I'm sure you would agree with me on this.
Well said. I'd be willing to bet that a number of people rate it down because of the pro-Christian message, but personally, I rate it down because it's all terrible.
To tell you the truth, though, I'm beginning to think that Tim's getting encouragement out of all the negative attention. I wasn't about to say "troll", was I? Troll? Naw...nobody'd keep posting consistently terrible art just to tick off people on kde-look.org, would they?
Meh.
Ratings & Comments
20 Comments
The artwork is a HUGE improvement. Keep it up! :D
This is why the world will never get along and always be at war. Too many people are so easily offended by other peoples beliefs and opinions. Have they ever stopped to think that their own beliefs and opinions may be offensive to others? It's these radical, self-centered, egotistical and opinionated mindsets that keep this world in constant struggle. Why is everyone so easily offended? Heteros are offended by gays... Jews, Muslims and Christians are offended by eachother as are blacks, whites and hispanics... Linux users are offended by Windows users... Why doesn't everybody just mind their own business and let everyone else exist? If people want to share their thoughts and opinions, that's a human right. To force someone to stop sharing or to demand the same beliefs from others is criminal. I'm just a heterosexual white male with my own beliefs of God not fitting to any organized religion who believes in Capitalistic freedom and the pursuit of a happy, fulfilling life, emotionally, spiritually and financially. I do not expect that every person will feel the same, but I belive they have that right. I don't force my views on them, and I don't expect them to force their views on me. Most people can make their own choices about what they want to believe. So if Tim wants to post his artwork expressing his beliefs, so be it. I would not expect Tim to say that "you must be a Christian." If you don't like it, then say so. I would not expect you to say "don't be a Christian, it's offensive." Let's put an end to this radical thinking and let people be who they are. I'm getting tired of seeing all this childish back-and-forth bickering in these posts.
Why do so many people think that Tim's artwork is so bad? I think it's wonderful! Have you ever tried to do free-hand in the Gimp? It's really tough. And even if you really do think it looks bad, don't bash him. Give him some advice, if you want to, but don't put him down. P.S. As for those who say he's not improving...ha! He's ten times better then he was a couple of months ago.
Better than a few months ago? No big deal! Better than the worst can still be extremely bad. And IMHO tim's religious "artwork" is worse than extremely bad. Too bad one only has one vote. ;) Servus flammenbringer
I don't often post things like this but WHAT is the big deal??? Are KDE lovers supposed to love Satan or something????? Or are they supposed to express only the love of TUX???? Penguins only allowed??? I use KDE AND I love lighthouses! The lighthouse holds a spiritual meaning to some and other meanings to other individuals. I have personally spent much time sitting in front of the Point Loma lighthouse in San Diego waiting for my husband to sail back in from the war in the last couple of years. Get off Tim's back! He stated his work is for fellow believers. If you don't believe, he's not trying to convert you. If you don't like his work, then spend less time complaining about it and more time being creative yourselves!
WHAT is the big deal??? Are KDE lovers supposed to love Satan or something????? Or are they supposed to express only the love of TUX???? Penguins only allowed? I love lighthouses! They hold a spiritual meaning to some and other meanings to other individuals. I have personally spent much time sitting in front of the Point Loma lighthouse in San Diego waiting for my husband to sail back in from the war in the last couple of years. Get off Tim's back! He stated his work is for fellow believers. If you don't believe, he's not trying to convert you. If you don't like his work, then spend less time complaining about it and more time being creative yourselves!
Thanks Tim, both for the concept and scripture application. Your doing great, keep working and keep strong in "the faith." Tom
I for one like your work:) And they are definately getting much better. Amazing what you can do with gimp. -Sam
With all respect mbiker35, asking, requesting or suggesting for someone to move on somewhere else to post is just candy coating censorship. For example, if I choose to make my black students/coworkers uncomfortable or unwelcomed to the point that they go somewhere more "comfortable", I have indeed censored or removed them nonetheless. While this may be a mild form of censorship or coercion, the end result is the same. That is the removal of views, content,opinions or people that one does not agree with. This is very dangerous and in most countries against the law in the public arena. I suggest that we learn from history how this has lead to the persecution of whole groups i.e. blacks,Jews, Islamics and now I suggest, Christians. Your point that there may be a "better" place to post his artwork suggests that this would be better for you, not necessarily for Tim. The artist does not require your permission or mine before creating or posting work. The artist has a duty to remain true to his or herself. Sometimes art is well received and sometimes it is not. That is what makes art so provocative and stimulating. It challenges us to reexamine our own values and ideals. It either causes one to change their postion or solidify their previously held beliefs, the result is personal growth!
Those that vote up Tim's work is indeed in the minority. However, what mbiker35 and those that agree with him fail to understand is minority voices, views and artistist expression should be protected and have an equal right to those who would be in the majority. To put it simply, if only art that the majority likes are permitted to post then we do not have "free speech" or a free forum. This can be a dangerous situation for your view point as well since you may one day be in the minority. There is an expression used in the video cutting/editing room, "if it doesn't hurt, then your not editing". Well folks, "if it doesn't hurt, then its not free speech". Many in Europe may have difficulty in grasping the "American" concept of freedom of speech. Even us Americans debate what is and what is not considered speech. Tim's work is clearly appreciated, used and wanted by many, albeit a minority of KDE users. I too feel your pain. I too hurt when I see, in my opinion, an ignorant socialist post content that I disagree with. Just remember, that it is "free speech" that will one day protect your own content.
Thank you a thousand times over. I couldn't have said it better myself.
I think you have misunderstood what I am saying. If I didn't believe in the voice of the minority, I wouldn't be a Linux user or an avid Slashdot reader :-p. Only through creativity and expression (sometimes of the minority) do new and awsome things come about. I do not support censorship. Notice two things about what I said: 1. I did NOT advocate CENSORSHIP of Tim's work. I did NOT call for KDE-Look admin to ban him or the like. 2. I put out a couple ideas for BETTER ways for Tim to express his ideas. My argument was NOT that Tim's ideas are bad and should therefore be censored. I simply offered evidence strongly suggesting that KDE-Look is not the best place for him to express his views. Tim has every right to express his views, but given the evidence in my previous post, it should be obvious that this site is not the place to do it.
Exactly what I'm trying to say over and over again. Thank you.
Tim, I'm not trying to flame you here, so please read through this comment. I'd like to point out a few things that you seem to have ignored or not noticed. First off, your wallpapers offend people! Secondly, not ONE of your wallpapers has ever received a rating of higher than 49%. That means that the majority of people DO NOT enjoy your artwork. In fact, most of your wallpapers seem to float around 29 to mid 30s percent. These ratings are terrible Tim, and they don't seem to be getting much better. KDE-Look as a community has consistently voted you down, and posted comments asking you to discontinue your postings. Many valid points have been brought up to support this conviction, including: your wallpapers are not eyecandy, the content is offensive, you post unceasingly (near daily), your ratings are VERY low and people have asked you to stop. In addition, you have so annoyed people that there have been a couple "wallpapers" created to MAKE FUN of you. The community is trying to tell you something Tim, especially considering both of the wallpapers were RATED HIGHER THAN ANY OF YOURS. The KDE-Look community is trying to ask you to stop, so please, reconsider what you are doing. There are alternatives to KDE-Look. I'm sure that there are many online christian communities that would welcome your work. If there aren't, it may be a fun project to create an eyecandy for christians site. I am not trying to flame; but myself, and many members of this community have been, and are asking you now, to find another place for your work. I respect that you want to make wallpapers to honor what you believe, but KDE-Look is simply not the place for it.
amen brutha! (testify)
Be careful. Last time I said this, someone called me - quote - "one of the most jackass I've come across". Besides, you don't expect him to listen, do you? I mean, evolution of the coke can? *hint, hint*
Regarding your first point, I have seen other postings that have been rather offending, and some with maliscious intent. Tell me if you see the amount of responses to those postings as opposed to Tim's. Personally, they do not offend me. And the ones that do I might look, but that's it. I move on. I find it amusing that those that disagree are still willing to come and respond. Tim doesn't do it to spite anyone. He does it because he sees that there are people in the KDE-Look community that enjoy his art. I myself have been critical of the quality of his work at times, but I believe that everyone should have the right to post what they want, even if the "supposed majority" says otherwise. To date, I have not seen the admins say anything about it, so if it's ok with them, it's ok. The reason his artwork goes down to 20-30 percent is because there are some that do it with bad intentions. They don't rate him on the art quality itself. They rate it down because of his beliefs, and because he chooses to share that with others. He's not saying, "BELIEVE THIS OR DIE!!!" He's just sharing some of his artwork with a biblical passage. If those that have a problem don't like it, move on. But don't rate it down because of what it says...rate it because the art is good/bad. That's why this place is "eye candy for your kde-desktop." And that "eye candy" is subjective. As for the parodies of his wallpapers and other such responses, that just speaks volumes of the maturity level of some members of this community. All those people are doing is making themselves look foolish. This would be akin to Linux users attacking SCO technologically or even physically because of what SCO is doing. It only hurts the situation, and makes Linux and the Linux community look bad. Same goes for the KDE-Look community. Show yourselves as people who can engage in discussions in a mature level, not by responding in such childish ways like the spiteful wallpapers. As for alternatives that would supposedly be "more suited" to Tim's artwork, I don't buy that one bit. If that were the case, then 95% of the submissions should be removed, because most of them don't have ANYTHING to do with KDE. Some are artworks of nature...should they only go to sites that cater to this??? I don't think so. In the same manner, I think Tim has all the right to post his artwork. Besides, if you read the New Testament, Christians are called to share the good news of Jesus Christ. What good does it do to share to those that already know??? Talk about preaching to the choir!! We are called to share to those that don't know, and the choice is up to each person. NOWHERE in the Bible does it say "FORCE them to believe." It is a personal choice...that is why we have freewill. If you choose to disagree, that's fine! But base your ratings on the quality of his artwork, for that is why it's posted. And if the message happens to touch someone's heart, then great. But don't attack him for his beliefs. To date Tim hasn't attacked anyone for not believing...he's only defended himself from those that have attacked him. As I mentioned in another posting, one person does not speak for the entire community, nor does the majority speak for the entire community. Many others have shown their thanks to Tim for posting his art, and it is getting better. Just because the majority of the world runs Windows doesn't mean that I'm going to stop using Linux or Mac OS or anything else. I'm sure you would agree with me on this.
It almost makes me change my mind about whether or not Tim Brown is doing this out of belief, and not out of trollish glee.
Well said. I'd be willing to bet that a number of people rate it down because of the pro-Christian message, but personally, I rate it down because it's all terrible. To tell you the truth, though, I'm beginning to think that Tim's getting encouragement out of all the negative attention. I wasn't about to say "troll", was I? Troll? Naw...nobody'd keep posting consistently terrible art just to tick off people on kde-look.org, would they? Meh.
i like tux ;-)